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ATLAANZ symposium over time - Shared screen with speaker view
Tania Oxenham
39:54
Mōrena koutou e uru ana mai ngā tōpito o te motu, otirā nō rāwāhi ko te Whenua Moemoea. Good morning everyone from NZ and Australia.
Tania Oxenham
49:18
Welcome to those from Canada also.
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
50:16
Fantastic, glad you can join us ICALLD friends :)
Laura Ficorilli
51:25
Hi everyone from Darwin
Laura Ficorilli
51:40
Sorry don't have my camera installed...
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
52:09
How many of you are there?
Natalie, VUW, Learning Advisor
52:23
We are 12 in the team at SL at VUW
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
52:35
Thanks!
Deborah Laurs
53:31
21,000 students at our university in total
Tania Oxenham
59:42
Oops! Cut off - we’ll get better of this I’m sure!
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:00:02
yes survey fatigue can be a concerrn
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:00:36
staff surveys are useful and many are very supportive
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:02:21
We have a shared database for our appointments and find the notes very helpful. We also monitor students' engagement with resources.
Barbara Morris
01:02:23
Thanks Marion, our focus is moving into the classroom with tutors so that we get to the students who do not seek support
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
01:02:47
I like the idea of evaluation being part of a wider "student pulse" survey. That's a good way to reach the students we don't reach too. Thanks Marion.
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:03:55
with embedded support, we are able to 'count' the number of users who access a learning resources for example, but sometimes difficult to follow up or at least to disaggregate the 'impact' of these resources and those who used them and the grades achieved/outcomes in the unit. Suggestions on how to do this more effectively?
xiaodan Gao
01:04:05
Our institution has two student experience surveys each year and our service is part of those surveys as well.
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
01:04:08
We also enter database notes after 1:1's and tick many boxes, but nothing is ever generated from these data. It is onerous and feels like a complete waste of time.
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:06:01
How many appointments can students have? Any limits per semester/year?
Natalie, VUW, Learning Advisor
01:06:14
One per week
Natalie, VUW, Learning Advisor
01:06:35
No limits really
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:06:46
So each student can have 50 appointments a year?
Natalie, VUW, Learning Advisor
01:07:08
In theory, yes.
Marianna Deynzer
01:07:12
how much time is spent entering such data into this database? also how are students made aware that this info is being kept about them?
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:07:16
Wow.
Kirsten Reid
01:07:28
no. we would monitor over use.
Rosie Estall
01:07:29
I record student visits in the same way … it's really useful but quite time-consuming
Kristen Sharma
01:07:48
it takes me about 2 mins per student to write in the notes
Kirsten Reid
01:07:56
it can be time consuming, but we build it into our work week.
Natalie, VUW, Learning Advisor
01:08:01
We have 10 minutes to write notes approx. We would ask students if it is okay to write this down into our notes and students can access them if they wish
xiaodan Gao
01:08:01
No limit is set but we do monitor high users and discuss ways to reduce dependency.
Barbara Morris
01:08:55
also we have no limits but high users are monitored and recorded in our reports
Deborah Laurs
01:09:22
Std appointments generally spaced around assessment deadlines --so maybe 3-4 times per trimester for undergrads-- but PGs may attend fortnightly at times during their candidature
Kirsten Reid
01:09:44
yes, students know about the notes. They can request them at any time. We follow prtocols of respect and confidentialty
Marianna Deynzer
01:10:18
oh I see! thats why appointments are 50mins not an hour... thank you. currently our helpdesk staff enter the data into the our institution wide SMS to help free up our time.
Carol Charman
01:10:34
I’d like to ask about the general level of English that your students have. For example, in the sample comments the topics seem more ‘academic writing/language’ based than grammar or sentence construction based. Maybe this is connected to the number of international students at your uni
xiaodan Gao
01:12:23
International students account for around 28% of our users, thought that has dropped considerably since last year. However, academic writing or language applies to native speakers as well.
Rosemarie Fonseka
01:12:50
Xiaodan, dependency will be one of the issues discussed in AALL's (Australian equivalent of ATLAANZ) next Meet the Author event if you'd like to attend: https://www.aall.org.au/meet-the-author/
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:13:01
We have 30 minutes one-to-one, online since March 2020, workshops , theis writing groups on line too, factor in time for data entry following the individual consultations also important for 'break' from zoom
Carol Charman
01:13:12
Thanks Rosemary
Barbara Morris
01:13:35
We do record/share information, with student consent, in relation to support provided relating to those who are specifically referred to us by their tutors, on A+plus.
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:14:32
yes, comparability and consistency would be an advantage
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:17:01
level 4- how do you 'show' that...not direct cause and effect... can an associative relationship be claimed?
Tania Oxenham
01:17:41
Good query Elaine.
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
01:18:09
Agreed, Elaine. It is hard to get beyond self-report, which is not really a good measure of impact.
Rosie Estall
01:18:15
Agree, Elaine...this was a big Q from NZQA in our EER last year
xiaodan Gao
01:18:42
Elaine, I think we can claim associative relationship as we can never measure direct impact of our work.
Tania Oxenham
01:18:56
What was NZQA’s response Rosie?
Deborah Laurs
01:19:29
@Elaine: connections based on student feedback, e.g "thanks for your help, I got a good mark for the assignment"
Kirsten Reid
01:19:52
That's a good question and is relevant to the general complextity of evaluation our practice. We can't claim direct cause and effect but we can work towards buiding a picture by using different evalauton tools.
Barbara Morris
01:20:07
I agree with Xiaodan - associative relationships are challenging - as we are only part of the story -
Kirsten Reid
01:20:23
sorry about my spelling !
Rosie Estall
01:20:33
Well, they were wanting to see "hard" evidence of this! ….which is why this study is really interesting!
Rosemarie Fonseka
01:21:55
Kirsten and TJ, do you gather samples of student writing or output over time to provide hard evidence of improvement?
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:22:17
"Missed a week" or gradually became more independent?
vittoria Grossi
01:22:43
Kirsten, wondering if many students request to see the notes you make and when they might do so?
Kristen Sharma
01:23:09
I had one yesterday who requested to see them. She had no probs with them
Kristen Sharma
01:23:24
But other than that it might only be about once a year
Kirsten Reid
01:23:29
we've had an occasional request.
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:23:54
BRB
Deborah Laurs
01:24:34
@Anna - growing independence usually not signalled by missed appointments = more likely, in current climate, indicative of external stressors
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
01:24:36
That's a good idea. I hadn't thought of collecting thesis acknowledgements in a more formal way. We could probably ask the graduate office for that when theses are submitted.
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:25:22
Thanks, I may have misunderstood - I thought about "skipping a week" instead.
Kirsten Reid
01:25:37
to rosemarie - we don't collect student's writing in the way you suggested. tjhat would be hugely time-consuming but it could be an interesting project if we got ethics etc
Tania Oxenham
01:25:44
How do you determine if the student comes a) because they have a need; b) they have formed dependency on the support; c) they come out of habit or as a ‘just in case’ mentality? The notes are from the LA’s; does this align to the student results?
Rosie Estall
01:26:09
do you use a set of keywords or phrases as relevant when writing notes that can make it easier to identify the progress? e.g. "improvement in"
Louise Wanoa
01:26:31
Apparent resistance to change? Or independent thinking? Learning Advisors can be sounding boards and a student may make an informed decision to take an alternative method based on the information given.
Deborah Laurs
01:26:56
@Tania - that's what this evaluation can show -- same issue recurring or progression
Kirsten Reid
01:27:05
we get to know pretty quickly if studenst are getting dependent. this is a really intersting point. what counts as autonomy?
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
01:27:12
I like this visualisation of the data.
Tania Oxenham
01:27:56
Visualisation really helpful!
Reed Colver
01:29:55
We often discuss the difference between dependency vs. using the meetings as part of their accountability frameworks - especially for students with executive functioning challenges - it can be challenging to determine
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
01:30:06
It would be intersting to see it plotted over the trimester or academic year to see patterns.
Barbara Morris
01:30:53
Surely how many times seem would relate to student need and often an equity issue rather than a set amount of time
xiaodan Gao
01:31:23
Agree with you Barbara.
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
01:32:40
Yes Deb, but sometimes they need nudging out of the nest :)
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:32:52
Not all students become HD students after consultations, unfortunately... Some students are also happy just passing while others want HDs.
Louise Wanoa
01:32:58
Regards autonomy Kirsten, I believe autonomy is independent thought so it may not be a student resisting suggestions, it may be they are becoming independent thinkers and able to come up with their own creative and equally valid way forward - self-directing their learning.
Barbara Morris
01:33:06
we also monitor institutional success and retention over the previous 3 years to help us identify and target 'at risk' courses which we end up working beside the tutors to help them improve their success rates
Susan Gollagher
01:34:10
I need to go to another meeting. Thanks so much and looking forward to seeing the slides later.
Rosie Estall
01:36:49
Marion, can I ask whether embedded support is in response to "catching" the students ...attendance of our workshops is very poor (even with variety in time and format) and I am coming to the conclusion that your approach is probably the most effective
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:36:57
yes, some limitations to K model, in relation to 'context/cultural/ factors can sometimes be 'static', and in 'training' contexts more than say. teaching...?
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:38:28
that's great about the notes- agree respectful purposeful and confidential :)
Anna Bailey
01:41:44
Thank you everyone, I need to head off to another commitment. Greta presentation and lots of takeaways.
hua dai
01:41:51
the screen did not show your last slide.
Lynette Pretorius
01:42:30
Thanks for a useful presentation everyone. I have to leave now as I have a PhD student's milestone panel. Thanks for sharing your evaluation practices!
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:43:00
We have 6 people in our room - hard to fit everything in in 5 mins
Jessica Ritchie
01:43:08
I have to leave now - fantastic presentation, thanks!
vittoria Grossi
01:43:09
hi everyone, I also have to leave now. Thank you for an interesting presentation.
hua dai
01:43:34
Thanks for a very useful presentation. I need to leave now as this is my off work day and I have another committment to fulfil.
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:51:37
too quick?
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:51:56
@ Kirsten- I have a sore throat so 'talking is a little tricky'
Eileen Hanrahan
01:53:19
Thanks for wonderful session. I have to leave for an appointment now.
Rosie Estall
01:53:30
I have to head off, too. Thank you. Good luck with the next step and look forward to the findings in the future.
Barbara Morris
01:53:33
Question: we are collecting very pertinent data - but as my co-ordinator would ask - so what? what are you doing with the data? How can this be used to improve the student experience and success and retention?
Barbara Morris
01:55:00
agree Dawn
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:55:54
being able to demonstrate impact can show others why this unit/service needs to be funded, staffed , supported
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:56:39
of course, in a Bourdieusian sense, we also need to be able to impose reception
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
01:56:47
Student motivation and whether their expectations were met is an interesting aspect to capture... because sometimes we won't do what they want (i.e., "fix" their writing/referencing).
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
01:57:06
Multiple choice-type questions in the data entry form for each student might help. We have a "readiness" indicator 1 to 5 when we see students who have to sit the literacy and numeracy test for initial teacher education students (LANTITE) and ideally would like to see movement from 1 to 4/5 after several consults (but sooooooooooo much depends on student's commitment and effort)
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:57:18
and with increasing competition for ever-diminishing resources, this is also increasingly difficult
Barbara Morris
01:57:36
Maybe there are different needs between Universities and institutes of technology?
Elaine Speight-Burton
01:58:16
@ Barbara different and changing
Rachel Kreymborg
01:58:24
Agreed Barbara
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
02:00:40
I'm just envious of how much support your students have access to.
Barbara Morris
02:01:35
feedback to tutors gets some really great conversations going
Elaine Speight-Burton
02:01:38
yes, it is a very 'personal' interpersonal relationship, it can be intense, and we can work 'between' the existing structures... human and non-human
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
02:03:09
We do have several embedded ALLND development and have been making progress through the combination of weekly content delivered by lecturers/tutors, online resources with referrals to resources/advisors through the assignment rubrics
Deborah Laurs
02:03:12
LAs - can act as sounding board; making future LA appointments a way for students to manage their own accountability; also learn about whole student (family, other commitnments, etc)
Vanessa Todd
02:03:32
Thanks so much GTG
Tania Oxenham
02:04:11
Thanks Kirsten, TJ and Deb - enjoyed this presentation again!
cindy wee
02:04:27
thank so much for sharing!
Barbara Morris
02:04:41
enjoyed today greatly thanks to everyone for sharing so freely
Louise Wanoa
02:05:17
Great presentation and information, enjoyed the collective discussions. Thanks
Rowan Jeffrey
02:06:25
Thanks for the great presentation.
Elaine Speight-Burton
02:07:08
thankyou everyone always good to 'chat' with colleagues
Laura Ficorilli
02:07:15
Thanks for the insightful presentation.
Anna Podorova Monash Uni Au
02:07:22
Thank you and Happy New Year :-)
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
02:07:23
Thanks to colleagues around the world, especially those who got up early or stayed up late to join us.
Katy mann benn
02:07:35
thanks so much great presentation
Dawn (she/her) Waikato
02:07:39
Fabulous presentation and a lot to think about.